May 28th Conversation: Another Climbdown


Back To Prabhupada, Issue 35, Spring 2012

We detailed in a previous article how guru hoax supporters refuse to accept the reality regarding the contents of the May 28, 1977 conversation even in the face of the very evidence they claim to accept. This is done out of desperation, because once a person accepts that the officiating acaryas/ritviks spoken of in the May 28th conversation are not being ordered to initiate their own disciples, then:

1. Not only does the basis for the beginning of The Great Guru Hoax, Part 1 - that the 11 ritviks were authorized to turn into diksa gurus - collapse;

2. But more importantly, the 11 ritviks would have to remain as ritviks since now there is no order for them to terminate acting as ritviks on Srila Prabhupada's departure, which in turn, means that we have a permanent ritvik system of initiation for ISKCON.

The 2 points above are collectively referenced in terms of "Modifications A and B" in The Final Order. In this connection, we detail yet another climbdown from one of ISKCON's leaders, in which he aligns his position closer to that of the IRM. In BTP 3, we highlighted the following fabrication claimed by guru hoaxer HH Hridayananda Das Goswami in his official biography:

"A little before departing from this world on November of 1977, His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada asked Srila Acharyadeva, as well as ten other prominent disciples, to accept the role of spiritual masters and initiate disciples to give continuity to the disciplic succession starting with the Supreme Lord, Krishna."
(From the biography on the official website of Hridayananda das Goswami,, archived April 2, 2004)

The above fiction was based on assuming that the May 28th conversation states that the 11 appointed officiating acaryas/ritviks were empowered to initiate their own disciples via the words: "grand-disciple/disciple of my disciple/regular guru". In an astonishing reversal, the same biography (now moved to a different website address has now been changed so that it is made clear that instead of Srila Prabhupada selecting 11 disciples to be diksa gurus, as claimed above, Srila Prabhupada only selected 11 ritviks:

"Shortly before leaving this world in November of 1977, Srila Prabhupada asked Acharyadeva and ten other prominent disciples, to initiate on his behalf."

This is a 180-degree shift in position. They have changed from stating that Srila Prabhupada asked 11 persons to be diksa gurus to now stating that he asked them to act as ritviks and initiate on his behalf. Indeed, the biography now claims that the May 28th conversation does not refer to these 11 ritviks at all - never mind speaking of them initiating their own disciples! Instead, it is claimed that the May 28th conversation merely refers in general to everyone eventually becoming a diksa guru:

"Srila Prabhupada made many statements that confirm his explicit, consistent view that his disciples and subsequent followers would eventually initiate their own disciples into the disciplic succession, including a conversation with members of the GBC in May 1977."

So the same short May 28th conversation has now magically been transformed into a brand new conversation whereby:

- 11 ritviks instead of 11 diksa gurus selected.
- Every disciple and subsequent follower referred to, rather than just the appointed ritviks.
- Diksa guruship only supposed to happen "eventually" instead of on Srila Prabhupada's departure.

But even the new version is simply another fiction, because there is no mention in the May 28th conversation of every disciple and subsequent follower eventually becoming a diksa guru either. Rather, the May 28th conversation speaks only of officiating acaryas/ritviks being appointed to conduct initiations for "particularly" after Srila Prabhupada's departure, with the authorisation to become diksa gurus being conditional on Srila Prabhupada giving an order for them ("When I order you become guru he becomes regular guru") - an order which was never given.

This massive climbdown further confirms that there is no basis for guru hoax supporters continuing to assert that Srila Prabhupada authorised 11 ritviks to turn into diksa gurus on his departure via the words "grand-disciple/disciple of my disciple/regular guru". For the original guru hoaxers themselves have abandoned this belief. In this issue alone we present 3 of the original 11 ritviks - Tamala Krishna Goswami, Satsvarupa Das and Hridayananda Das Goswami - stating this abandonment even whilst acting in their capacity as GBC-authorised gurus.

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