Back To Prabhupada, Issue 62, Vol 2, 2019, Interactive
"Dear Krishnakant Prabhu,
It's been a long time since I had your good association, but you come up frequently in conversations between myself, Mahatma and Jayananda, and we are so happy that you are so right on when it comes to everything regarding what Srila Prabhupada wanted on every level.
Recently, I had a Facebook discussion with a fellow called Uttamasloka and used The Final Order to present our position, but no matter what I said he was firmly fixed and eventually I got blocked, which means I was probably getting to him. I had devotees leaving comments like "Srila Prabhupada personally told the rtvik system was wrong" and all kinds of bizarre things like this. For a moment I thought I was in the twilight zone but the level of dishonesty amongst these people was quite appalling.
Now, I read this comment from a lawyer regarding the May 28th, 1977 "appointment tape" conversation, and I know I could go through The Final Order to seek out a response, but I wonder if you have anything you can recommend I send him. I look forward to hearing back from you and to see you again soon, I hope. We are with you 100%.
Here's his comment:
"As a person who has made his living for 30 years being precise with words (I'm a lawyer), this is very clear to me. Srila Prabhupada ordered his disciples to be gurus. The people they initiate are their disciples. The words are straight forward and clear. But just as with mundane politics, agenda and bias can trump (no pun intended) objective fact. There is no such thing as "alternative facts", and there should be no such thing as putting a spin on Prabhupada's words that isn't justified by this clear language.
As a small aside, the transcription of the words that appear on the screen is not 100% accurate. Some words which I could hear were omitted, but they didn't make any difference to the clear articulation of intent expressed by Prabhupada. There can be an entirely different debate and discussion about whether those who attempted (and are attempting) to follow his order to initiate have succeeded and to what degree. Just like there can be about the success rate of sannyasis and gurukula teachers. But that is not the point of this tape. The point is that SP clearly ordered his disciples to initiate their own disciples after he left."
- Krishna Bhakta Dasa, New York, USA
1) This article summarises all the issues regarding the May 28th, 1977 discussion:
www.iskconirm.com/synth
2) We can note that although this "lawyer" claims to be "precise" with words, his statements are anything but precise.
a) He claims that:
"Srila Prabhupada ordered his disciples to be gurus."
But there are no orders given in this discussion. Srila Prabhupada states at the outset what order he will be giving later on:
Srila Prabhupada: "I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acarya(s)."
Tamala Krsna: "Is that called rtvik acarya?"
Srila Prabhupada: "Rtvik, yes."
Then, at the end, he states what happens only "when" he gives an order:
"When I order you become guru, he becomes regular guru."
In between there are some questions and answers.
One can argue about what the meaning is of the order he will give, and the answers he gives, and what happens when he gives a certain order, but one cannot claim that any order is actually being given in this discussion. To do so would be an example of an "alternative fact", even though this person claims to be against such things.
b) He also claims that:
"The point is that SP clearly ordered his disciples to initiate their own disciples after he left."
However, the only time there is any reference to what would happen after Srila Prabhupada "left", is at the beginning of the conversation:
Satsvarupa: "Then our next question concerns initiation(s) in the future, particularly at that time when you are no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation(s) would be conducted."
Srila Prabhupada: "Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up. I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acarya(s)."
Tamala Krsna: "Is that called rtvik acarya?"
Srila Prabhupada: "Rtvik. Yes."
And Srila Prabhupada "clearly" replies that he will be ordering "rtvik" in order to allow initiations to be "conducted" when he is "no longer with us". Srila Prabhupada stating "rtviks" will be ordered is a long way from the claim that "SP clearly ordered disciples to initiate their own disciples", since the word "rtvik" does not mean "diksa guru".
We can only hope that, for the sake of his clients, this "lawyer" is much more adept at being "precise" with his words in the courtroom.
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