Back To Prabhupada, Issue 72, Vol 1, 2022, Interactive
"Haribol,
AGTSP. PAMHO.
I was wondering if you could please shed some light into a confusing subject matter regarding the fall-down of the soul as I think some here (including myself admittedly!) are a little confused. Let me explain – up until now, and from what I've read, heard and seen on YouTube videos of Srila Prabhupada on this subject matter of the fall-down of the soul, he says that we were with Krishna (meaning face to face, which is what my understanding is) and because we wanted to enjoy like Krishna/were envious of Him, Krishna created the material world for us to enjoy independent of Him. However, in the quote below, Srila Prabhupada appears to contradict himself, by saying that only those souls in the brahmajyoti fall down:
Question: "How one who lived in association with Krsna, how he fell down?" (Srila Prabhupada himself asked this question.)
Srila Prabhupada: "Generally, those who are living with Krsna or Vaikuntha, they never fall down. But those who are in the effulgence of Krsna, in the impersonal Brahman, they fall down, because it is the propensity of the living entity to enjoy. But one cannot enjoy; there is no ananda.
Those who are merging in the Brahman effulgence, they are getting the department of eternity. The Brahman is sac-cid-ananda. So they are simply accepting sad-amsa. Sad-amsa means only eternity. Just like if you are asked to sit down in a place eternally, no, it will be impossible. You must desire a change, variety, because we are living entity, living being. So therefore our Vaisnava philosophy has varieties of enjoyment."
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 1/5/72)
Obviously, my intention is, under no circumstances, to offend Srila Prabhupada, but I just want clarification please.
Many thanks,"
- Raju Surti, Birmingham, UK
Editor replies:
Below is what is stated by Srila Prabhupada right before the part you have quoted. This gives the context for the quote you have provided:
"Even if you go to the impersonal Brahman effulgence, from there also, you have to come back. [...] But anyone who reaches... The jiva, another reason of falling down..."
Then, Srila Prabhupada continues, as you have quoted:
"There is sometimes question, "How one who lived in association with Krsna, how he fell down?" Generally, those who are living with Krsna or Vaikuntha, they never fall down. But those who are in the effulgence of Krsna, in the impersonal Brahman, they fall down, because it is the propensity of the living entity to enjoy. But one cannot enjoy; there is no ananda. Those who are merging in the Brahman effulgence, they are getting the department of eternity. [...] Just like if you are asked to sit down in a place eternally, no, it will be impossible."
Please see the underlined parts:
a) First Srila Prabhupada speaks of the soul in the material world attaining Brahman realisation ("if you go to the impersonal Brahman effulgence"). Then he repeats this point a couple of sentences later, speaking of those who are "merging" into the Brahman effulgence, i.e. attaining Brahman, "getting" eternity. Thus, Srila Prabhupada is speaking of the soul in the material world who merges into Brahman, or attains Brahman realisation.
b) He explains how attaining Brahman realisation is imperfect compared to Bhagavan realisation or those who are associating with Krsna, by making the point that those who lived with Krsna, "generally" never fall down, whilst those who have achieved the Brahman effulgence do fall down because to just stay in eternity is "impossible".
Hence, there is no contradiction.
a) Srila Prabhupada is not stating here that originally and eternally there were some souls already in the Brahman effulgence, and only those ever fell down to the material world. Rather, he is speaking about those who are in the material world attaining the Brahman effulgence having to fall back down to the material world.
b) Srila Prabhupada also states that, in contrast to Brahman realisation, those who are living with Krsna "generally" do not fall, which means this is what usually happens, and only rarely will someone fall as this is not the norm – as that is the definition of the word "generally". Thus, it does not mean that it will always be the case, otherwise Srila Prabhupada would not have added the word "generally" as a qualifier.
"I want to thank you so much for continuing the hard work that gives so much support and guidance to so many of us who are not just followers, but disciples in disciplic succession.
Regarding the Cantos: after Canto 10, what happened to Canto 11 and 12? Did Srila Prabhupada not finish these, or did he write them under another name or topic? Look forward to your answer.
I have another question. I remember Srila Prabhupada mentioned in one of his talks the process of keeping focused on the beads when chanting. Is the right count very important? What I mean is, I sometimes miss or go one over the 108 bead count while chanting the rounds. Is this wrong? Should the round always be 108?
Thank you,"
- Abraham Prado, California, USA
Editor replies:
1) In regard to what happened after Canto 10, the following article from BTP 51 explains the matter in detail: www.iskconirm.com/btp51
If you still have any questions after reading this article, please do not hesitate to ask.
2) Since Srila Prabhupada has given us the instruction to chant 108 times around the string, it is best to try to follow that as much as possible:
"The reason for the Japa beads is so that you can keep track of how many times you are chanting Hare Krishna mantra daily. It should be chanted a steady amount of times regularly. We chant at least 16 times around the string of 108 beads daily (one full mantra on each bead). This keeps us strong in spiritual consciousness."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 14/3/75)
However, as noted, one can of course chant more than 16 rounds since 16 is the minimum:
"It is your responsibility as the president of the temple to see that these devotees strictly follow the rules and regulations such as chanting 16 rounds minimum on the beads. 16 is the minimum; one can chant more. There is no harm, but one at least must chant the fixed number of rounds."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 10/11/75)
"I am very glad to learn you are chanting 48 rounds. Actually it is all right that one should chant 64 rounds, even 16 rounds, so if one is able to chant more than 16 rounds up to 64, it is very good. You fix up your rounds. Try to increase it but never decrease it."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 17/12/67)
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