Back To Prabhupada, Issue 78, 2023
In previous issues and IRM papers, we have thoroughly shown how the arguments presented by ISKCON's leaders to remove Srila Prabhupada as ISKCON's diksa guru are false. Here we will approach the issue from the opposite angle. We will accept that their arguments are actually true, and then examine the consequences if this were actually so. To do this, we will examine the statements ISKCON's leaders make regarding the key piece of evidence on which the guru hoax is based: a conversation held on May 28th, 1977 (henceforward "the conversation") between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples. This conversation involved a series of 6 questions posed to Srila Prabhupada, with each question followed by Srila Prabhupada's answer. This series of 6 questions with their answers are listed verbatim in the box below, with (S) and (T) referring to the questions which were asked by Satsvarupa and Tamala Krsna Goswami, respectively. (All emphases in article added.)
 |
We refer to a slideshow presented by GBC member and GBC voted-in guru HH Badrinarayan Swami ("BAD"), and co-authored with GBC member and GBC voted-in guru HH Bhakti Vaibhava Swami, that was featured in BTP 72 article "Undefeated After a Quarter of a Century". There it is claimed regarding Question 1 of the conversation that:
"One of those questions the GBC asked of Srila Prabhupada was: ‘Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you're no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted.'
Srila Prabhupada's answer:
Srila Prabhupada starts by explain [sic] the system to be practiced while he is still physically present"
Srila Prabhupada is "particularly" asked about initiations when he is "no longer with us" (physically absent). It is claimed that Srila Prabhupada did not answer the question asked, but instead answered the exact opposite to the question he is asked and talked about initiations while he is physically present. Thus, accepting the slideshow explanation as being true, we have the following ‘rules' regarding how Srila Prabhupada will answer a question that is posed to him:
1) Srila Prabhupada will not answer the question he is asked.
2) When Srila Prabhupada is asked a question he will answer the exact opposite of the question asked.
But, if one assumes that Srila Prabhupada behaves in a rational manner, then he would answer the question he is asked, rather than answer the exact opposite of what he is asked. Especially since Srila Prabhupada does not state that he will not answer what he is asked but instead answer the opposite of what he is asked.
Therefore, the only way one can claim that this is what Srila Prabhupada is actually doing, is if one has the ability to read Srila Prabhupada's mind and determine that, yes, he has decided to act in this opposite manner.
The slideshow ends with the following conclusion about the conversation:
"The bottom line. Srila Prabhupada was formally asked by the GBC:
Our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you're no longer with us.
Srila Prabhupada answered:
Regular guru/ Grand disciple
Disciple of my disciple"
It is claimed that the answer to the very first question Srila Prabhupada is asked is actually given by the very last statement Srila Prabhupada made, even though in between there had already been 5 questions and answers given. Thus, accepting this slideshow explanation as being true, we have another ‘rule' regarding how Srila Prabhupada will answer a question that is posed to him:
3) Srila Prabhupada will give the answer to a question, not when he is asked but only at any later time, with that time only known by a GBC representative.
Again, we may note that if it is assumed that Srila Prabhupada behaves in a rational manner, then he would answer a question when he is asked it and not later at some random time. Especially since Srila Prabhupada does not state that he will answer questions in some random order.
Therefore, the only way one can claim that this is what Srila Prabhupada is actually doing is if one has the ability to read Srila Prabhupada's mind and determine that, yes, he is actually answering questions in this unstated random order.
When BAD presented the slideshow for example at the San Diego ISKCON temple on 5/12/21, he explained at the outset that:
"you'll see at the end of this there's a number of papers that this is based on"
Then, at the end of the slideshow it lists these papers that the slideshow is based on:
"References
[...]
"Disciple of my disciple" (GBC paper)"
This GBC paper Disciple of My Disciple ("DOMD"), on which the slideshow is based, states regarding Question and Answer 5 of the conversation:
"Satsvarupa: So they may also be considered your disciples.
Prabhupada: Yes, they are disciples. Why consider? Who?
ANALYSIS:
Satsvarupa Maharaja again suggests the possibility of proxy initiation. Srila Prabhupada could say yes, but he does not."
(DOMD, p. 7)
However, as one can see above, Srila Prabhupada clearly does answer: "Yes", to being asked if the disciples will be his. Thus, accepting the slideshow explanation as being true, we have then another ‘rule' regarding how Srila Prabhupada will answer a question that is posed to him:
4) When Srila Prabhupada states "yes", he does not state this.
This rule again relies on the GBC being able to read Srila Prabhupada's mind and determining that when Srila Prabhupada says "yes", he does not mean "yes".
Next we turn to the explanation for the conversation given by GBC voted-in guru HH Bhakti Vikasa Swami ("BVKS"). BVKS refers to the very last statement Srila Prabhupada makes in the conversation and claims:
"Srila Prabhupada said, ‘there will be regular guru and the disciples will be disciple of my disciple', Srila Prabhupada said."
(BVKS, "Guru Issues, Part 17" Talk, 4/3/22)
In that last statement, as can clearly be seen from the full transcript given above, Srila Prabhupada states:
"When I order you become guru, he becomes regular guru."
BVKS claims that Srila Prabhupada needing to give an order for "regular gurus" – "When I order you become guru, he becomes regular guru" – means that the order has actually been given – "There will be regular guru". Thus, accepting his explanation as being true, we have another ‘rule' regarding how Srila Prabhupada makes statements:
5) When Srila Prabhupada talks about the need to give an order for something to happen, it actually means Srila Prabhupada has already given the order.
However, it is normally assumed that Srila Prabhupada means what he actually states and not something else. Especially since Srila Prabhupada has never stated that when he states one thing, he actually means something else entirely.
Therefore, the only way one can claim that is what Srila Prabhupada is actually doing is if one has the ability to read Srila Prabhupada's mind and determine that:
a) What he actually stated is not what he meant;
b) What he really meant will be disclosed to us by an ISKCON leader.
The historical facts are that:
1) On July 9th, 1977, Srila Prabhupada ordered how initiations would continue in ISKCON: representatives (rtviks) would conduct initiations on his behalf without any requirement for Srila Prabhupada's physical presence, thus ensuring he would continue to remain ISKCON's diksa guru.
2) Subsequently, through one singular act, ISKCON's leadership was able to simultaneously achieve 2 objectives:
a) Terminate the rtvik initiation system for ISKCON which Srila Prabhupada had ordered.
b) Give birth to ISKCON's guru hoax.
This act was claiming that Srila Prabhupada had supposedly appointed these rtviks to become successor diksa gurus as soon as Srila Prabhupada physically departed. Without this claim, the rtviks would have continued to remain rtviks, and thus the guru hoax also would not have been born.
3) This order for these rtviks to turn into diksa gurus was supposedly given in the conversation, providing we accept the "interpretation" of the conversation given by ISKCON's leaders just documented – as being true. Because then it can be claimed that Srila Prabhupada is speaking about his disciples becoming "regular guru" or diksa guru to give "initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you're no longer with us."
4) However, this "interpretation" depends entirely on claiming that one can read Srila Prabhupada's mind, and not on what was actually stated as answers to the questions he was asked, as we have just documented.
Therefore:
a) The guru hoax > Depends on > May 28th conversation interpretation;
b) May 28th conversation interpretation > Depends on > Mind reading.
Hence:
c) Guru hoax > Depends on > Mind-reading.
This is all explained by the diagram above.
If we accept that what ISKCON's leaders state is true, it means that we must also accept the consequences of such an acceptance. And the consequence is that it would mean ISKCON's leaders must possess magical mind reading powers. However, there is no evidence that they possess such powers to read Srila Prabhupada's mind. Nor, to be fair to them, have they even claimed to be able to read Srila Prabhupada's mind. But without investing ISKCON's leaders with such magical mind reading powers, the guru hoax collapses, and Srila Prabhupada remains ISKCON's diksa guru. Hence, using this innovative approach of just accepting that ISKCON's leaders' arguments are true, actually leads to further powerful evidence for why they are in fact false!
Subscribe for FREE to Back To Prabhupada Magazine - Click Here
Return to "May 28th, 1977 ‘Appointment’ Tape" Index
Return to "Srila Prabhupada’s System" Index
Return to "Succession" Index
Return to Badrinarayan Swami Index
Return to Bhakti Vikasa Swami Index
Return to IRM Homepage
