Hare Krishna!
I'm Initiated devotee.
I had to have recomendation letter. I answered to many questions to pass initiation test, that all does before having initiation. In minimum i had to practise 8 years, japas and principles etc. Than my guru agree towards Radha krishna and Prabhupada to initiate me. request me to read Prabhupada books and render service to Krishna always.
What is going wrong on it.
Srila Prabhupada is Acharya, my gurudeva do not claim to be acharya. Shiksha guru is more important.
everybody knows this. It is so simple.
Now everyone will have some dream with Srila Prabhupada, and select the name, and then will say that I am now initiated devotee of SP, that is your goal.
My gurudeva was initiated by SP, After initiation I feel huge diference in my spiritual life, I feel more presence of my Gurudeva even he is so far phisically, I am now more capable to preach and practise with more determination.It is about connection, Parampara. that's all, so logic, My blood brother or sister may not have any relation with me, but they have same surname, if something very tragic will happen, we will be together, because we are connected.
I know that you will not reply me or concern about what i write, but we are all in same boat so forget to critic or judge, just follow your own way, if you not agree, dont make other deagree.
We all are practicing Krishna conscienceness, that is the point, with or without diksha guru is your conflit.
You may think that you are alerting people, but may be not. You dont have any authority. Only lifting hand to point someone. This is not quality of vaishnava. If Iskcon guru as you say is corrupt, so I would rather support this kind of corruption that promote spiritual life for everyone.
this is my opinion.
Haribol!
Reply:
Hare Krishna!
“I'm Initiated devotee. I had to have recommendation letter. I answered to many questions to pass initiation test, that all does before having initiation.”
So did you have to answer the question regarding when, how and where your guru was ordered by Srila Prabhuapada to succeed him as the Diksa guru for ISKCON? If yes, please let us have the answer, since no one from the GBC has been able to answer this question since 1977!
“In minimum i had to practise 8 years, japas and principles etc. Than my guru agree towards Radha krishna and Prabhupada to initiate me. request me to read Prabhupada books and render service to Krishna always. What is going wrong on it.”
What is wrong is that this involves disobeying Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada only ordered that everyone who joins ISKCON shall be initiated by him:
“I am the spiritual master of this institution, and all the members of the society, they’re supposed to be my disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually.”
(Radio interview, March 12th, 1968)
He never ordered that this would ever change, and instead we should search out other persons from whom to receive initiation.
“Srila Prabhupada is Acharya, my gurudeva do not claim to be acharya. Shiksha guru is more important.
everybody knows this. It is so simple”
If Diksa guru is not so “important” then why not allow Srila Prabhupada to be this just as he wanted and ordered? It is so simple!
“Now everyone will have some dream with Srila Prabhupada, and select the name, and then will say that I am now initiated devotee of SP, that is your goal.”
We have never claimed this is our goal – to allow persons to initiate themselves. Please quote us stating that this our goal. Unless you can, then you are lying and making a false accusation against us. Before becoming an “initiated” devotee, why not first become a human, and learn to speak the truth and not make false accusations?
“My gurudeva was initiated by SP, After initiation I feel huge diference in my spiritual life, I feel more presence of my Gurudeva even he is so far phisically, I am now more capable to preach and practise with more determination.It is about connection, Parampara. that's all, so logic, My blood brother or sister may not have any relation with me, but they have same surname, if something very tragic will happen, we will be together, because we are connected.”
Yes it is about connection and not physical presence. Therefore the main argument given by the GBC as to why Srila Prabhupada cannot be our Diksa guru – “that he is not physically present” – is defeated here by your own words! Thank you very much!
“I know that you will not reply me or concern about what i write,”
So this is yet another thing you do NOT know, just as you did not know what our actual “goal” is!
“but we are all in same boat so forget to critic or judge, just follow your own way, if you not agree, dont make other deagree.”
So then why did you write to us criticising and judging us and our “goal”? Why did you not just follow your own way instead of writing and disagreeing with us? If you do not follow the advice you give to others then you are a hypocrite which is the chief quality of Kali-yuga.
“We all are practicing Krishna conscienceness, that is the point, with or without diksha guru is your conflit.”
You cannot be practicing Krishna consciousness if you are disobeying Srila Prabhupada. Did your guru not even teach you this most basic principle of Krishna consciousness? Simply dismissing who the diksa guru is, just shows that you do not know the first principle of Krishna consciousness – that without having the correct diksa guru, one cannot connect to Krishna :
“By the Grace of Guru one gets Krishna and by the Grace of Krishna one gets a bona fide Guru. Therefore Krishna consciousness means staunch faith both in Guru and Krishna . One minus the other is no good for the devotee [...] Do not ever try to approach Krishna directly. Anyone who talks of Krishna without service to Guru will not be successful.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 27 September 1967)
So this was the process of approaching Krishna when Srila Prabhupada was physically present- going through Srila Prabhupada as the Diksa guru, and it will remain the process for the lifetime of ISKCON since Srila Prabhupada never authorized others to replace him as ISKCON’s diksa guru.]
“You may think that you are alerting people, but may be not. You dont have any authority. Only lifting hand to point someone. This is not quality of vaishnava.”
You may think that you are alerting us to what we are doing wrong, but may be not. You don’t have any authority. Only lifting hand to point at us. This is not the quality of a Vaishnava.
“if Iskcon guru as you say is corrupt, so I would rather support this kind of corruption that promote spiritual life for everyone.”
So this the fanatical blind following which results from following such corrupt gurus – you admit that you do not even care if they are corrupt!
And they cannot be promoting spiritual life if it involves disobeying Srila Prabhupada – a very fundamental principle of Krishna consciousness you have already revealed you are ignorant of.]
this is my opinion. Haribol!
Yes, definitely, it is simply your opinion, and not based at all on Srila Prabhupada’s orders.
Conclusion
The Vedic aphorism is that we must “judge by the results”:
Phalena paricéyate. One has to be judged by the result
(Lecture, 20/12/68)
So the results of you being “initiated” and following your guru are clear for all to see:
1) You lie and make false accusations.
2) You are a hypocrite, happy to criticize others for doing what you are also doing!
3) You do not care whether or not Srila Prabhupada is obeyed, not understanding that is the first principle of Spiritual life.
4) You do not care who the correct diksa guru is, not realizing this is the first step to being able to connect to Krishna .
5) You are happy to fanatically blindly follow gurus who may be corrupt
And all this you have revealed JUST by writing a few short paragraphs! Imagine what would have been revealed if you had written like say a whole page!
And it is no surprise, since these are the fruits which are to be expected from disobeying Srila Prabhupada.
And the above is not my opinion, but the substantiated teachings of Srila Prabhupada.
Haribol!