Reply to Jayantkrit Prabhu

by Krishnakant

Prabhu, please find a reply to the points which you made in your e-mail. They will be boxed in speech marks thus “”, with my comments following underneath.  

 
“You may argue that Prabhupada gave some people the mantras by tape, to which i will answer that he was seeing those disciples afterwards and could then give them directly (but i don't know if he did) and also that he was accepting them personally as his disciples and had the power, I presume, to impart this through the tape. Also the pariprasna limb of the relationship with the guru cannot be done in his absence.”

Your whole argument collapses on the fact that many of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples did not even meet him. Also after July 9th, the acceptance of the disciples was devolved to the Ritviks and Srila Prabhupada had no involvement. Therefore my point remains – you can not identify a single aspect of diksa that Srila Prabhupada gave pre-77, that he cannot give now. This is an obvious point Prabhu, if Srila Prabhupada did not meet a large proportion of his disciples.  

“The real thing is that what you propose is totally out of line with everything Prabhupada and our parampara ever taught about guru-tattva.”

Please produce just ONE statement from Srila Prabhupada that is ‘out of line’ with accepting Srila Prabhupada as our diksa Guru today, or please be kind enough to withdraw your assertion.

“I do not say that the maha value note srila prabhupada is deficient now, but that he never even remotely told us to proceed as you suggest.”

He said so on July 9th. Please point out where Srila Prabhupada stated that this directive was meant to be terminated on his departure. Unless you can point to this termination instruction, we are proposing *exactly* what Srila Prabhupada instructed.  

 
“He is asked a double question: what to do now and especially after.”

This is incorrect. The question is:  
 

“Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you are no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation(s) would be conducted.”  

There is NO mention of ‘what to do now’ as you contend; only the future that particularly relates to ‘when he is no longer with us’.  

  “He only states that he will appoint some rittvik priests to initiate on his behalf as he is in such poor health condition.”

This again is incorrect. There is NO mention of ill-health in the whole conversation. This is what Srila Prabhupada actually states:  

 
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acarya(s).  
Tamal Krsna Goswami: Is that called ritvik acarya?  
Srila Prabhupada: Ritvik. Yes.  
 
“The gbc say that this order was given later with the rittvik list but it was obviously only a rittvik list and only for the time being. the best proof of it is that later, in october i think, prabhupada tells a gentleman that he has appointed some rittviks and then he says that if he recovers from his poor health condition he may again start to initiate himself.”

  1. But he is only referring here to STOPPING his participation in the performance of the actual initiation ceremony, not the process of initiation, since he still sends the gentleman to get initiated by Jayapataka.

  2. Even whilst the Ritvik system was going on, Srila Prabhupada would perform the yagna himself if he was physically there. The man in question, Mr Roy, had come personally to get initiated by Srila Prabhupada HIMSELF (in terms of Srila Prabhupada conducting the ceremony), and it is this he speaks of ‘resuming’.

  3. He cannot be speaking of ‘resuming’ initiating since he had not STOPPED that – that’s what the Ritvik arrangement was for in the first place.

  4. So if he is still ACCEPTING disciples, what exactly has Srila Prabhupada STOPPED which depends on his HEALTH. It cannot be the process of initiation which was still going on, nor could it be the giving of names, which was the only new duty that the Ritviks took on which Srila Prabhupada was still doing, as this did not depend on Srila Prabhupada’ health since he had not lost the power of his speech. It refers to the physical act of performing the yagna that Srila Prabhupada would always perform if he was able to.

“To base the whole continuation of the parampara after him on the words 'henceforward' of tkg's list of rittviks, and to balance this against the whole body of teachings of our parampara and prabhupada's cannot convince me.”

It will not convince you because this NOT what we propose. We even say that you can take the word ‘henceforward; OUT, and it still does not change the fact that you have a directive issued to the society which needs to be followed.  If you wish to terminate it then you need to bring forward a termination instruction issued by Srila Prabhupada. It would help if you read ‘The Final Order’ – the IRM’s position paper - so you would at least know what it is we preached. Further as I have challenged you above, I request you to present just ONE instruction from Srila Prabhupada that prevents Srila Prabhupada accepting disciples today in the manner that he himself set up and ordered on July 9th.  

 
“It's like if a doctor tells an old patient suffering from diabetis that henceforward he cannot take sugar, it goes without saying that this only means as long as he is alive.”

This is a false analogy since it assumes the very premise that needs to be proven, This analogy is based on the assumption that a person needs a physical body to take sugar. But the assumption that one needs a physical body to accept disciples is the very assumption that is in contention and which needs to be proven. To simply assume that which needs to be proven is circular reasoning.  

 
“Therefore, I again repeat my conviction that if intelligent, sober, able people like your good self adhere to this doctrine it is only out of sheer desperation in front of the obnoxious abuses of imposters.”

I think I have proven conclusively that the ‘intelligent and sober’ thing to do is to accept Srila Prabhupada’s instructions as they are given. Your arguments are all exposed as being based on speculative reasoning, and not rooted in any actual instruction given by Srila Prabhupada. The above de-construction of your position has nothing to do with bitterness towards the GBC, but everything to do with simply accepting Srila Prabhupada’s instructions as they are actually given.